Restart Recharge Podcast

504 Transitioning out of the Classroom

• Forward Edge • Season 5 • Episode 4

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Join us as we discuss the transition from classroom teacher to instructional coach with our very own, Grace Brown. Grace, an instructional coach here at Forward Edge, shares her journey from teaching high school English to becoming a curriculum innovator and instructional design expert. This episode explores the challenges and adjustments teachers face when leaving the classroom, offering insights and tips for those considering a similar path. Grace discusses both the positive shifts and the unexpected difficulties of her new role, while offering valuable perspectives on maintaining professional autonomy, building a supportive network, and understanding the importance of perseverance and confidence. Whether you're an instructional coach, curriculum specialist, or someone eyeing an admin role, this episode provides a wealth of knowledge and community for educators at all stages of their career.

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Podcast Team
Hosts - Katie Ritter & Matthäus Huelse
Producer - Celine Thomas, Matthäus Huelse
Editing Team - Ben Glasure, Matthäus Huelse
Social Media Team - Grace Brown

Matthaeus Huelse:

Calling all Instructional Coaches, Curriculum Specialists, Teachers on Special Assignment, or whatever they call you. I'm Matthaeus Huelse.

Katie Ritter:

And I'm Katie Ritter. As Instructional Coaches, we are often responsible for our own professional learning and can sometimes feel pretty isolated in our role.

Matthaeus Huelse:

That's why we're here, bridging the gap with a wealth of tips, tricks, and building a community of coaches.

Katie Ritter:

So hit the restart button with us.

Matthaeus Huelse:

Recharge your coaching batteries.

Katie Ritter:

And hopefully you'll leave feeling just a little bit less on your own coaching island.

Matthaeus Huelse:

Welcome back, listeners. Today, we are exploring a journey that many of us have taken and some of us might be considering. The transition from classroom teacher to instructional coach to admin to anything outside of the classroom. Join us as we welcome Grace Brown, an instructional coach here at Forward Edge who's passionate about empowering educators and shaping the future of learning. Grace's journey from a 9 to 12 English teacher to a curriculum innovator and instructional design expert is a testament to her commitment to student success and building up teachers. In this episode, she'll share insights into her transition from the classroom to coaching, offering valuable perspectives for those considering a similar path. Welcome to the pod, Grace.

Katie Ritter:

Welcome back, Grace.

Grace Brown:

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Katie Ritter:

We're recording this podcast mid school year, but our plan is to release it at the time when people are thinking about what's next school year look like for me, and thinking about interviewing for other positions. So that will be the frame of thinking that our listeners will be in at the time we release the pod. So, let's jump in because this is your first year as a coach, having left the classroom after a while so what would you say is the hardest part from leaving the classroom?

Grace Brown:

I think the hardest part I don't know that hard is the right word. It's been like one of the biggest shifts, but it's a positive shift, even though it has its own challenges. Existing in a different professional environment has been a huge shift in getting used to so I don't want to say that that is hard because again, that makes it sound like it's bad and it's not, but simple things like, the whole first week in the office I was telling everybody where I was going. Every time I got up to fill up my water bottle or go to the bathroom, I would, poor Jamie who sits across from me. I was always like, Hey. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'll be right back. Or hey, I'm going to go fill up my water bottle. I'll be right back. And I finally realized what I was doing and I'm like, no one cares. It's okay. And I think, that kind of stuff was a shift and even just trying to figure out what to do with that professional autonomy and freedom. I think sometimes as teachers, we can feel the pressure of Everyone needs to know what we're doing all the time, whether that's students or administrators, you're just always on for the whole time that you're there. It's part of what makes it so exhausting. And so then to be in a workspace where at our office, if it's nice out, we'll take a couple laps, help break up the day, get some movement in. The first time I was invited to take a walk, I was, I looked, I think Katie to your office and to Tyler's office to be like, do I need to tell them where I'm going? Like what if they need me and it's like everything's gonna be fine. So I think this shift in Professional workspaces and how a different industry Operates there's a lot to get used to in that a lot of it is positive but it is a lot to adjust to I taught for 11 years, it's the only job, I mean I did like part time work, but it's been my only grown up job, and then being in school for all that time you just get used to what it feels like to be in that environment. So I think that was the biggest shift of, this is how other professions operate.

Katie Ritter:

Yeah.

Matthaeus Huelse:

For sure. Are there any other things? Because you mentioned there are some good things and one of those things is probably like you can go out and not have to tell anybody that you're going on a quick walk around the building.

Grace Brown:

Yeah.

Matthaeus Huelse:

what's some negative things maybe? Something that surprised you that you didn't appreciate?

Grace Brown:

Sitting down a lot. I think that's the first thing. Over the summer, maybe it ties into the walks where I just was like, I cannot stay stationary for this long. As a teacher, I'm used to built in movement and that activity and energy. I personally really love that. I guess I didn't know that about myself, because I was only used to one environment. To switch to staring at a screen and sitting down in one spot all day, was a really big shift, and that was difficult. Along with, I think, The shifting of time management it goes hand in hand with a positive of there is more time to get work done. There is more freedom in how you devote your time and energy. But with that I again was used to like, I know what I'm doing for 50 minutes, eight different times a day or six different times a day, depending on what school I was in. And so for me, that really helped direct my focus and help me prioritize, now to have a little bit more of an open timeline it's been a bit of an adjustment of how am I keeping myself on task? Feels weird saying that in front of my boss. Katie, I promise I'm on task. Um,

Katie Ritter:

Grace, first of all, this is not something I don't know. I was literally going to comment and say I do feel like that's something that I see most people who leave the classroom but even someone like Matthaeus said at the beginning, like maybe you're going into an admin role or, a different role that is still. Directly working with a school district is no longer classroom teaching. I definitely think that is something that so many people can relate to because teaching is such a rigid structure of your day. Even what you're doing within those 50 minutes to some extent is defined for you. You have to cover these topics or do these things or if the curriculum is chosen for you, right? Coming from teaching it truly is so scripted and I think that's a great advantage. Call out for someone who is thinking about making that transition because some people cannot handle the openness and the open structure with the time management. I am curious though if there was anything, I always think this is an interesting thing people leave the classroom because it. Oftentimes, as teachers, we very deeply identify with being a teacher, with being an educator, right? When you're thinking about leaving, it can be this really emotional experience, and like any career change, but I think with something in particular where people do identify deeply with the profession, it's an emotional experience to think about changing so I'm curious from your perspective, is there anything that made you pause in your consideration of leaving the classroom that you still really miss or how have you adapted and are getting that in a different way and it hasn't been as big of a deal maybe as you thought it was?

Grace Brown:

I knew from fifth grade that I wanted to be a teacher was never anything I questioned and I never imagined myself leaving the classroom So a hundred percent to your point it was probably two years from me seriously considering the move to actually pursuing leaving the classroom. But a lot of it was serious processing on do I really want to do this? What are the reasons that I am leaving? What are the things I am hoping to find in a new opportunity? I think, for teachers who are looking to leave, I think assessing your values.. I worked really closely with some friends. Who were not teachers, but are in ed, like in sales and have, always been corporate. And so they were helping me through this and called that out for me. I realized that I still wanted to be in education. It is something that's so important to me. I am passionate about equitable education, providing students with the best learning opportunities possible. I'm very passionate about teacher support and knew that I wanted to work for a company or in a role that would still hit those points for me. I did love my students. I feel like students are the best and the worst part They are the best part because they're the part that makes the day fun and interesting. But then sometimes they're also the worst part when you're chasing after work or something happens in class. And so I think I, I was most worried about how am I going to maintain that connection? In this role I've been able to maintain connection with students. And honestly Tracy, who I know last season talked about tech pop ups. I totally took that from her and me in the last couple of weeks. I have been in Classrooms multiple times a week, teaching, working with first, second, and third graders who I never taught and I was so terrified of as an upper school teacher, as a high school teacher. Granted, I only had them for 40 minutes, but it is so wonderful and it's such a joy. I worked with the fifth grade students the other day giving a presentation AI, and again part of it is I tap into my fun ant side where it's I get to come in and do the fun thing. And then give them back.

Katie Ritter:

I love that!

Matthaeus Huelse:

Yeah, that's perfect to describe it.

Grace Brown:

In this new role, I still feel like my sense of purpose and self, are still being met my cup in those ways is still being filled with the work I'm doing here.

Katie Ritter:

I think that is excellent advice.

Matthaeus Huelse:

Absolutely.

Grace Brown:

Now,

Matthaeus Huelse:

you've transitioned. When I think about my own experience I've realized I've been in school, as a student or as a teacher the vast majority of my life. I literally don't know anything else. My life has had a summer break when I transitioned out, there were things that I just didn't know about. Things that I had no information about. I remember sitting at parties talking with people that were not teachers and I would hear their conversation like, it doesn't apply to me. I'm a teacher. I don't know what they're talking about, this business stuff. All of a sudden, I'm like, Oh, interesting. I'm beginning to realize, how things work. Are there any blind spots that you've noticed? Things that you learned about that you didn't know and you have maybe sheltered as a teacher?

Grace Brown:

Yeah, that's a big one. I remember my onboarding meeting, my first day of work and I was in a meeting with Tyler for maybe an hour and a half but all the different things that companies use to communicate or to send work to each other and the workflow process as a teacher even when I've been in districts where there's like a scope and sequence and we're all supposed to be following the Same pattern you are in your room Doing your own thing. My workflow is what I decided it was. I'm the one who's going to be responsible if I didn't get my work done. It's just going to fall on me. And so I think, even that is still something that I'm, trying to manage. Some of it's just really basic stuff like that where I'm, like, oh, okay, I need to learn. How to be in that step with co workers.

Matthaeus Huelse:

Yeah, that is definitely something I noticed. And then there's also, the corporate lingo. I think Katie has introduced me to a lot of different phrases. The download Everybody loves to circle back around, all love those. There's a lot of lingo we just don't use as much as you do.

Katie Ritter:

Some of them are just because I make up my own language,

Matthaeus Huelse:

it's that, plus like all of these like, Sounds good to me, S G T M, and I'm sitting there, the comment's staring, and it's what does that

Grace Brown:

I've not seen that one.

Matthaeus Huelse:

But I'd rather just spend the 30 seconds staring at it and be like what could that be?

Grace Brown:

I had that while I was teaching, actually my department chair at the time. She's super efficient, she's incredibly organized, she was amazing as a leader. But she asked me for something and she was like, I'll have this EOD or can you get this EOD? And I remember I sat and looked at that for a while. I'm a smart person, I have a master's degree, I should be able to figure this out. I went through, especially with the thing that she was asking me for, I'm like, okay, so what could that be? And I finally broke down when I emailed her and I was like, I will absolutely do whatever it is you need me to do. What does this mean?

Matthaeus Huelse:

EOD

Grace Brown:

And, she was like, end of day. And I was like, awesome. I feel stupid, but thank you.

Katie Ritter:

Glad I just wasted 30 minutes trying to figure out what EOD means.

Matthaeus Huelse:

Please tell me you sent that at 4. 30 PM? Ha!

Grace Brown:

Exactly.

Katie Ritter:

that's funny. Okay. I think we will take a quick break from our sponsors.

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Katie Ritter:

Welcome back we are talking with Grace Brown about transitioning out of the classroom teaching role. Grace is definitely bringing a perspective of transitioning from classroom teacher to business world, but also lots of things that would apply for folks who are transitioning out of the classroom and staying within the district itself. Grace, when we think about, transitioning from classroom teacher to instructional coach. Supporting teachers. What are some of the mindset shifts that you made in order to be an effective, confident coach?

Grace Brown:

I do find myself still a lot of times thinking like a teacher. Matthaeus, you and I have conversations where I'm saying, those are really good teacher things, but we're looking for coaching things or, even working with Brooke and Emily with the EdgeU network and social media posts. I sometimes fall back into teacher mindset and have to be reminded of coaching mindset. But I think as a coach, something that I'm trying to shift into is tapping into the feelings that I had as a teacher where I wish I had this kind of support or I wish that my district or my school had this position or had someone like this what would I have asked from them and what would I have wanted from a person and I think that's, One, to speak to people who are nervous about what am I going to bring to a new role? I feel like my teaching career has helped, I bring that kind of experience. When I'm developing PD sessions, what would I have wanted to see as a teacher? Or what would I have not wanted to see as a teacher? What would have sent me heckling in the back or completely off task? So I think pairing those mindsets. It's not about necessarily losing one. We're sacrificing one experience for the other, but how can I tap into both?

Katie Ritter:

Yeah, I think that is a really smart way to connect to that empathetic side that you need to be an effective coach. And I also think you Hit on something that I have observed a lot when I see people make this transition, in particular like this teacher to coach role. And that is like thinking like an individual classroom teacher you can empathize with this teacher. What's happening with their students, the injustice of what we're asking this teacher to do because you just went through it yourself, shifting that thinking to more like big picture. More a whole system. What's everything that's connected? So I think that's a smart observation that you're already realizing because it does take a little while to start thinking differently in that way, right? As a coach, we are supporting the whole system. We are sometimes asked to make decisions and develop learning programs and plans that affect entire staff, right? And ultimately all of the students, not just the one teacher or the one department. And so that thinking in that balance and we're also trying to balance what works for the admin who have this whole other set of issues. I think that's a smart observation and something Matthaeus was also asking me at the beginning, just my opinion what have I seen? people struggle with here. I often see, a specific transition, like from teacher to coaching role most specifically a tech coaching role. But I also often see coaches come in and they, valued technology so much, that's why they're interested in this role of being a tech coach. They see the impact it makes and they're so excited they think when they go into a school, everyone's going to love it. Even if they don't love it right away, as soon as you tell them how great it is and what impact it can make, they're going to jump on board and it will be so easy. And you very quickly realize like changing adult behavior and practices. is not easy, no matter what we're talking about and how obvious it seems to you. So you have to like really shift your thinking and approach that way, too. So would be my yes, good observation and plus one Broad scale that I've seen, too.

Matthaeus Huelse:

And that made me think, too, because you mentioned this component of empathy, which is so key. That's something that we've been ingrained with. We've been doing this for the longest time in our classrooms. What are some things that you keep just as teacher mindsets or teacher strengths that are useful to you now?

Grace Brown:

I find myself now, working a lot with math teachers and I was a high school English teacher and initially I get a little nervous because I never taught math so I don't know what is developmentally appropriate or how to break this down, but I think using my understanding of what components make an engaging lesson, what tools was I using as a teacher to see positive learning outcomes in my classroom and I really, I believed this as a teacher, I still believe this now. There are some very basic best practices in terms of classroom management and lesson setup that can be stretched across curriculum and can be beneficial in any classroom. And so I think, my classroom management strengths, are coming into play. When I was in my undergrad, in my teaching cohort I won the award for most likely to have the most managed classroom.

Katie Ritter:

What an award. That's

Grace Brown:

What? It was like, it was great. and even Katie, to your point, teaching adults or transferring that I think my ability to present is a strength, but then also learning some of the strategies I would use to bring students back in or to keep students on task, that's good. I can't really use with adults. And so that's been a challenge, but I also think my ability to, having worked with challenging students or working in challenging classrooms gives you that confidence Fake it till you make it, persevere, we're gonna figure it out, you just keep going. And I think that is something like a teaching superpower that definitely connects to this role. I think I still get really nervous in front of PD because like students I am not nervous in front of. Even if it's a group that I don't know or work with, but like adults make me super nervous. And that's been tricky. But yeah, those are the key things that stand out. That connection to classroom teacher, department, building the beauty now is, to Katie's point, I get to see how all of those work together. And I still get to connect with teachers on that individual level and make those connections. Teachers often feel voiceless in a school administration. I feel very lucky now to be in a position, not that it's always going to happen, but at the least, I have the ability to Connect those parties or be the mediator to be the person who's standing in being like listen your teachers Need this or on the other direction Listen, these are the things your administration is facing this is why we're facing these roadblocks because it just literally can't happen

Katie Ritter:

I've always thought that was one of the coolest things about being a coach is how uniquely situated we are to yeah in different stakeholders and help people. See the system and what they think should be happening and why it can't be happening. How they are preventing as a result of how they've structured the system. That is actually preventing, what you're trying to make happen from happening. So I agree. I think that's great.

Matthaeus Huelse:

What's your favorite phrase? Every system is perfectly designed to get the outcome that it gets.

Katie Ritter:

Yeah. I usually say the results it gets, but I think that's the quote. You nailed it.

Matthaeus Huelse:

Hey, look at me, go. good to me. Uh, sGMT.

Katie Ritter:

Okay, Grace! Let's end this episode with your top three tips for helping classroom teachers transition out of the classroom and into a coaching role.

Grace Brown:

Yes. So my first tip is create a network, which networking for a job or position is a totally different ballgame and definitely required encouraging from friends, and I learned very quickly, it is very much about the connections that you have. So I think creating a network, not being afraid to build a network is definitely my number one tip because you're just going to learn so much and it's going to help you narrow down your search. I'm very interested in that kind of work so that would be tip number one. And I think partnering with that tip number two is perseverance. To not give up. From the time that I really seriously started looking and applying to things outside of the classroom, it was two years of applying and being rejected. And, man, there is nothing like going through an emotional identity shift, questioning whether or not you can do anything else, and then being rejected. It's just not, you're either not going to hear anything at all, or you're going to get a very basic AI generated bot email like, thanks for replying. We're not interested. And that stinks. There's no way around the feeling of that stinks, especially when you find something that you're like, Oh, I know I could do that. I know I would be really good at that. I would just encourage any teacher to keep trying, keep applying, do not get discouraged. The last tip is be confident that you do have valuable skills that are so worthwhile and so necessary to a workplace outside of the classroom teacher. I think for teachers, we have so many skills. We are excellent communicators. We are great presenters. We know how to break complex concepts down into bite sized units and communicate them to an audience. We know how to intervene when somebody isn't on task or isn't getting something. We have organizational skills. Think of all the content that you've ever created. You have so many skills. You are a leader. This presentation that you give one time to one audience who is there for that purpose and wants that information, has you this stressed out, or this lasered in on this project for a whole week, I give. Six presentations in a day to an unwilling, uncooperative audience who was forced to be there.

Katie Ritter:

Good point

Grace Brown:

teachers have so many skills that so many industries can benefit from. And it's going to be difficult. But be confident that any company would be really lucky to have you. And that. you deserve to have a great work life balance and to be appreciated in any role that you exist in. So I think maintaining that confidence is really key.

Matthaeus Huelse:

I really loved how you focused on not saying, I'm just a teacher. There is so much that we bring to the table as teachers, and you made a good point. Thank you so much for being here, Grace. This was awesome. Thanks for letting us pick your brain. Dear listeners, I know this was broad topic. I hope it didn't feel like boiling the ocean to you. But if you still have the bandwidth, please come circle back around onto our social medias and share with us how you transitioned out of the classroom.

Katie Ritter:

Thanks, Grace.

Matthaeus Huelse:

Thank you, Grace.

Grace Brown:

Thanks guys!

Matthaeus Huelse:

Thanks for spending time with us today. If you found this episode helpful, please share it with an educator friend.

Katie Ritter:

And connect with us on social media at rrcoachcast to let us know what you thought of the episode and what topics you want us to discuss next.

Matthaeus Huelse:

New episodes drop every other Tuesday. Be sure to subscribe to Restart Recharge wherever you listen to podcasts.

Katie Ritter:

So press the restart button,

Matthaeus Huelse:

recharge your coaching batteries, and leave feeling equipped and inspired to coach fearlessly with the Restart Recharge podcast,

Katie Ritter:

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Matthaeus Huelse:

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Dr. Katie Ritter

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Matthäus Huelse

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